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Disillusionment

on Thu May 17, 2018 11:26 am
Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war? How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel? What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)? Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
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Re: Disillusionment

on Thu May 17, 2018 4:50 pm
Why are the Italians soldiers disillusioned with the war?
Maybe they are just tired of being like a killing machine in the war. Too many casualties and dead bodies are witnessed by them so that their mental tolerance is increasingly challenged. In other words, not only severe and considerable physical traumas but latent and prolonged spiritual scars take place on them and hence they feel extremely jaded up. They are now totally out of the mood or the desire of the war. Thus, they are disillusioned with the war significantly.

How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
At this point, our protagonist takes a risk and seeks for a tremendous escape from the endless, abysmal war, which denotes that he urges to cut off his connection with the war entirely. He is so sick of all the things he has experienced in the world, including being serious injured that he is willing to jeopardize his safety of his life to fulfill his purpose. That is to say, he is determined to seclude himself from the war and start a new life with Catherine without the burden of his identity in the army. And this denotes that the choice of Frederic and his wife will make the plot enter into a brand-new environment.

What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(chapter 32)?
He may denote that he is no longer relevant to the war and he has already made up his mind to quit this endless and vicious “game”. The only idea in his mind is that escaping from the war as soon as he can and the reunion with his dearest wife and some close acquaintances. Also, we can see that he is kind of dismayed because he described the war as “his show”. However, after realizing how cruel and fierce the war is, he shifted his attitudes towards the war. Thus, the change in the protagonist’s ideas and mental situation are also connected with the alteration of the plot and the season.

Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, she does. From the second half of chapter 34 to chapter 36, which is the end of book three, we can easily observe that after the reunion of Frederic and his wife Catherine, they are more close and harmonious than before. During their departure which lasts for a considerable number of days, they both strongly miss each other and Catherine also expects the return of Frederic. In addition, it seems like Frederic’s emotions are calmer after reuniting with Catherine. What’s more, when they are informed that some officers plan to catch Frederic immediately, they escape together without much hesitation. They are not like the respective individuals now but rather a sweet, cooperative organization, which gives a sense of “home”.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun May 20, 2018 11:31 am
1. First of all, disillusion means the feeling of disappointment after finding out that something is not as good as expected. The Italians at first though that it is possible to defeat the Austrians in a matter of months, perhaps even weeks. But by this point, everyone realizes that's not happening. They are defeated. The Germans has started invading as well, the Italian army is left with no choice but to retreat. Hopes gone, the Italians want nothing but to end the war. End the thing that has not only wrecked their homeland, their family but also left countless psychological scars. Their disillusionment of the war is understandable.

2. Frederic (or Henry) jumped into the river to escape the battle police that will inevitable put a bullet in his head. He jumped not only to evade the battle police, but also to evade the war. To put all of that horror and bloodshed behind him. The river, or water in many religions and faiths also represents cleansing, atonement. Frederic jumped to say farewell to the bloody scars of war, to atone from how the war has changed him. This perilous escape marks the beginning of a new chapter in Frederic life, a chapter of hearth, warmth and hope. From the plot's perspective, such a escape pushes the storyline forward. Without it, the writer won't be able to write anything else........

3. "It was not my show anymore", it was not my fight, not my war anymore. Frederic detaches himself from the war, from the misery that has accompanied millions of Italians. He is ready to put the army behind him and start a new life with Catherine. Like Jack said, the wording, the use of the word "show" specifically is a point of interest. It hints that Frederic feels manipulated by the war. He feels that he is a character in a show, controlled by the storyline, like a puppet on a string.

4.Definately. Catherine and Frederic share pleasant memories fro Milan. Frederic no doubt thinks of the warmth and safety when thinking of Catherine, when thinking of the time they've spent together and the days of safety and refuge in Milan. Looking at the whole novel, their relationship improves dramatically after reuniting, ultimately forming a family in Switzerland. When Henry learns that he is to be caught, they depart together without a moment of irresolution.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun May 20, 2018 11:28 pm
1. Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
From my point of view, in Henry’s narration, the Italian soldiers were in despair and disappointed. They thought they could defeat their enemy in a few month, but the reality was just the opposite. They were defeated, and the Germans started invading Italy as well. The Italian army had to retreat. At this time, the soldiers only wanted to get way from the frontier, stop fighting and killing, they really wanted to go home. But the officers made the war endless, they wouldn’t let the soldiers do that, they have to continue the fight. Have seen their homeland being invaded, friends and family members injured and dead, the soldiers mind started collapsing, the disillusionment was unavoidable at that situation.

2. How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Maybe this is the start of the change of his adventure, he is getting away from the battle now, no more endless war for him. I think the river might be a symbol of cleaning, the water can wash away the pain and blood on his body and bring him a brand new life without war. Also, this is what he expected long ago, to start a new life with Catherine, without being a lieutenant in the army but as a man called Frederic Henry.

3. What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)?
He may mean that now he had quit the war, the endless bloody fight, this has nothing to do with him any more. The only thing in his mind might be just get away from this place as soon as possible. Although “my show” seems made the war something relaxing, after discovering the cruel of the war, Henry’s idea of war changed.

4. Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, she does. After Frederic get away from the war, the first thing he thought about was Catherine. In page 206 and 207. He was thinking about when he could see Catherine and live together. For many people, when they get away from danger, the first thing they think about is home, go back to their family. In Frederic’s case, Catherine is the one. Every time he think of Catherine, he became calm and thinking of their reunion somehow gave Frederic the hope to live. That’s why Catherine is the refuge, peace and “home” for Frederic.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Mon May 21, 2018 8:41 am
1.Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
They saw the success of Austria in battles and Germany started to attack as well. They felt like being defeated and started to retreat. Besides the disappointment on failure of the battles, the war had brought a lot psychological injuries to them, such as destroyed homeland, and countless and unstoppable works both for surgeons like Rinaldi and the soldiers. They felt tired and weak. As a result, the disillusionment appeared.

2.How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Being accused as a spy from Germany, which meant an inevitable death, Henry jumped into the river and followed the water flow away from the army. After the escape, Henry would no longer stay in the army confronting the war, but would had a chance to live in a life of peace and happiness with Catherine if he was fortunate enough. This event marked a possible new chapter of Henry’s life so it was a demarcation for the cruel war and a hopeful new life in the novel.

3.What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)?
In Henry’s mind, he had separated himself with the war according to the escape. He was quite firm to leave the battlefield and never returned. The following part of the war would no longer be his business. By the way, the word “show” makes me feel like previously Henry was actually neutral maybe even a bit eager to attend the war since he voluntarily joined the army. But afterwards, he became negative to the war. He was no longer eager to play in the show of war.

4.Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes. For refuge, Catherine was the nurse who took care of Henry. She also provided a hurt heart of the war with pure happiness, as we can discovered that during the summer in Milan, the actions of Henry were quite childish. And he was definitely safe during that time. For peace, the time spent with Catherine was definitely a pleasant and peaceful period of time. Henry did not need to consider anything related to the war but how to spend the day with Catherine. For home, although they were not married, Catherine was like Henry’s wife and she had the baby. And Catherine was also the spiritual homeland for Henry since when Henry thought about Catherine, the memories were always sweet and warm and when Henry was back to the army, sometimes he still recalled the desire for staying with Catherine.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Tue May 22, 2018 2:02 pm
1. Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
What the Italian soldier thought at first was they would win the war without any necessary effort. But as the war takes place longer than they expected, they gradually disillusioned, they found the war was ruthless and full of sorrow. This can be seen in chapter 25, soldiers got tired to joke on the priest while this was what they enjoyed the most before. Some of the previous soldiers around the table to joke on the priest died in the war, the rest then lose the interest in this. How could they acted as before since their friends had died? And later the Italian soldiers were forced to retreat, and this action completely destroy their confidence.

2. How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Between being killed and “betray” the army, Frederic made up his mind to get himself freed by leaping to the river. This leap does not simply means his escape in order to live, but also means that he abandoned his fame, his military level and the war. In the past, he used to consider everything for the victory, he would kill a soldier for the country’s sake; but from then on, he will seek his own life, and the war is nothing to him. This leap indicates that his switch in attitude towards the war.

3. What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)?
He got tired of all of this. He is really loyal to the country, for the country’s victory, he suffered so much that most of his friends of ambulance drivers died, he even killed a soldier to show his loyalty in the country. But what the country gave back is the fate of death——so do all the other officers who were not currently in the troops during the retreat. It is not fair, he got despair on the country, his effort is like nothing. As a consequence, his attitude towards the war are then changed from feeling nothing to get annoyed by it.

4. Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, she is definitely his cradle home. In chapter 32, there is a monologue: " I was not made to think. I was made to eat. My God, yes. Eat and drink and sleep with Catherine". Sleeping with Catherine is compared to be similar as eating and drinking, such kinds of basic needs. According to Maslow's hierarchy of need, mankind have to satisfy their rudimentary requirements (like eating and drinking) before all other needs. Home is like this, where you can get the basic protection and peace, and you do not even need to take effort to remind it.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Tue May 22, 2018 11:03 pm
1. As the war went on and the enemies attacks were stronger and more aggressive, the soldiers do not hope to have victory come any longer. The face the reality that they are falling back and loosing, and many more people are dying and the only thing they can hope is that they are not among the dead. They suffer both physical and psychological pains from the ruthless war, that's why they disillusioned.
2. After watched the previous captains being executed with out a chance to explain, Frederic realized his would die if he stayed. To jump into the river may be the instinctive action to stay alive for him, no need other further explanation or interpretation to the action. By doing this, Frederic is no longer the man in war before but a deserter who only wants to live now.
3. Frederic used to be a Tenente in the war, which had gotten medals and was respected by many people. But by saying that, Frederic no longer a soldier or a Tenente in the war, but a person who suffer enough from the war and just want to escape. He wants a peaceful, enjoyable life with Catherine more than victory.
4. Yes, I think Frederic feels happy and safe and peaceful when he was with Catherine. He only considers things about the relationship and love with Catherine but not how to live or when to die in the war. Catherine is like a sign of safety because she would not go to the front, so it is understandable that Frederic seems Catherine as refuge, peace and "home".
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Re: Disillusionment

on Mon May 28, 2018 6:23 pm
1. The reality that the army had to retreat must had hit the optimism of soldiers. After seeing deaths and tears, they realized that the war was not as simple as they thought, they were defeated and were made to fight the endless war by officers those who would not have any chance to see the cruelty of the front line. The war lasted longer than they imagined and noticed that there was no need for paralyzing themselves.

2. At the moment that Henry escaped from the battle and leaped into the river for drifting, he finally ran away from the absurd, endless war. His whole connection to the war, to the army finally disappeared along with the flowing water. He drifted and thought, in the deep heart, he knew that the time and all the cruelty happened in the war would faded away, and the river, at the same time, represented the passing time, and the whole new world ahead of Henry, waiting for him to reach. It was totally a new start, the home, the safety, the lover… all needed Henry.

3. This sentence expressed that Henry eventually noticed what place every single person involved in this war was at, especially for himself. He was just a small ant, fighting and winning and failing, but there wouldn’t have any substantial function. “It was not my show any more…”, Henry refused to retrieve the memory of the war and he felt relaxed escaping from the war. People are always fighting for something, nevertheless, for the most time, they actually know nothing about what “something” really is.

4. Yes. Catherine and Henry spent a lovely time in Milan. Even though both of them doubted the love between themselves at the very first time, in my opinion, they had already tied together. Sometimes, Henry wished to see Cat, he wanted to fell the warmth in the embracement; he wanted the safety, no matter it is temporary or not. He wanted to be comforted. Sometimes, Henry wished not to see Cat, he was so afraid that all his dreams would just be dreams.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Wed May 30, 2018 2:16 pm
1.Why are the Italians soldiers disillusioned with the war?
There should always be a motive drive, however internal or external, to account for people's behavior. The essential reason why people start a war was that they need a fight, as an absolute judge, to get what they think they deserve or they desire. However, the battle last much longer than they expected and their former drive seems not so durable compare to the suffer. And the situation just seems so terrible at present since the army had to retreat so the war may last even longer.People are people and they are too short-sighted to drive themselves through the disastrous condition with the fake bright future the war might won them. As their personal interests are sacrificed, who cared about the patriotism or the freedom which hardly has anything o do with their peaceful warm breakfast on Sunday morning without the bomb shouting outside and the hospitals always crowded with wounds. People are too weak and have been in the dark for too long, they need comfort right away in the real world, not just future promises.

2.How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
He was too eager to escape the reality, eager enough to hang his only life at risk.He was too tired , too suffered , and too depressed. Creatures always tend to live in a comfortable environment according to the biological theory. The leap symbols the terrible harm caused by the battle to the individuals at that time and the strong eager of the people themselves. The leap also means a bright future it may lead to, maybe a new peaceful life without the burden of the battle with slow pace.

3.What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."?
It means that Henry quit in the show of the war. He is too small to have any big ambitions about the super super hero in the war and he maybe questioned himself about what he really is. He actually didn't do anything. Without him, the Earth is still rotating with constant angular velocity and the battle will still continue or end. He means nothing. All he has done was performing which means what he has done means never a single influence on the time. So he was a little depressed but not much. He is determined to devote himself into a new life while he himself means much more important. He is the only 'He' in that life and it was impossible to maintain balance without him in the new kind of life he expected.

4.Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
To some extent, yes. Catherine means warmth to Henry with stable constant joy and comfort which seems a tremendous contrast compare to the bleeding and the bombing on the war. No-one needs to die. They are happy with each other and that is why love is precious. With somebody you love or love you aside, people are much easier to sleep soundly and they are much easier to be happy. But since the happiness is not so durable, we can still consider the warmth time they spend together dream. Too fragile and too precious.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Wed May 30, 2018 7:28 pm
Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
At this point of the novel, the war wasn’t going on in the way that Italian soldiers expected to. Their patience and tolerance has gradually been exhausted because of the seemingly endless war events. More importantly, there’s a growing likelihood that the Italian soldiers will lose the war, with the Germany’s participation of the war. Their morale has been crippled day by day through repetitive killings and bombardments as well.

How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Frederic chooses between leaping in to the river and being slain. He has no other choice but to leap into that river. This is not only the only means to escape from the battle police, but an escape from the whole bloody war as well. Water is baptizing his broken heart, after his experience in this cruel, barbarian war. This is the symbolic demarcation because a river is a place where no one knows where he will be brought to. He might be brought to Catherine, which is what he hopes, or somewhere more treacherous. This would create sort of an allusion to his undetermined life and the unexpected future.

What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)?
Henry finally decided to be detached from the war. After all these sufferings and experiences, he finds himself finally quitted and totally not involved in this war. The word choice for show is irony. That’s what he genuinely feels for the whole war, for its being ridiculous and dull. And the show has finally ended for him to perform; just as if he’s retired as a veteran.

Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, Catherine definitely represents for Henry’s refuge, peace and home. Whenever Henry feels despair, baffled or disappointed, he thinks of Catherine. It is more than love affair between Henry and Catherine. Henry has the predestined affinity with Catherine, and he regarded her as his place affording peace and tranquility. The reliance from Henry to Catherine is unfathomable as an outsider.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Thu May 31, 2018 8:58 pm
Why are the Italians soldiers disillusioned with the war?
By first joining the war, almost all Italian soldiers expected the war to end quickly, so they would be able to gain reputation in a short period of time without wounding too much. However, the Italian army not only were defeated by the Germans but also had to retreat in a humiliating climb-down. At this time, the soldiers only wanted to escape from the war and go home. Thus there was disillusion.

How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Frederic’s escape, cutting off his connection with the war entirely, is the turning point of the novel. As described in the novel: “we were washed down by the river.” Frederic’s leap into the river marks the vanish of past self, the drifting of present self, and the ambiguity of future self.

What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(chapter 32)?
At the point of the leap into the river, Frederic detaches himself from the war, from the mincering machine of millions of young lives, from the honor and pride of the stars and metals, from the obligations and responsibilities of being a Tenente……He does not belong to the war any more, and will no longer be manipulated by the war.

Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Of course she does. After Henry was hurt at the front line, he was sent back to the hospital, in which Catherine stayed with him all the time. The hospital was the refuge for war, and Catherine was the refuge for Henry. In the hospital, there was no chaos, no bombardment, no gunshot, no war---only peace. So Catherine, as an essential character in the hospital, provides peace and joy for Henry. They were also secretly married in the hospital, so they are a sweet, cooperative couple, which gives a sense of “home”.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:57 pm
Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
As the war continued, lots of causality were overwhelming, the mood of Italian soldiers were hysterical, so to speak. Germany got involved, the enemies were strengthened, but the morale was going down and the supplies were running out, it was obvious that the Italian was losing the war. Confronting the reality, some soldiers discovered that they had no hope to win the war, instead they would waste their lives on this meaningless object, therefore they became insurgent and affected others. They disillusioned because they were timid, and because they were judicious.

How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
The leap was a symbol that Henry determined to eschew the accountability that had bothered him for a long time. His “loyalty” to the nation was corrupted, and he decided to pursue his own happiness by taking a risk of escaping from the army. It was the turning point that the details of the war would not be mentioned anymore, since Henry doesn’t care about it anymore. Since then, there was a vehement sense of anti war, by the strong contrasts between the sweet kisses and tongues with Catherine and the ashen atmosphere of the front.

What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)?
At first Henry thought he was responsible for the war, and his badge. But when he experienced the inhumane torment by the insurgents, he found that there was no hope for Italy to win the war, since there had been agitation inside the army which caused death of several innocent commanders. The war was not the one that Henry thought he was adhere to, and he didn’t want to contribute to it anymore, which he was not capable for neither.

Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
I think that Catherine really means these to Henry, namely the converse of war. When Henry escape from the front, he went straight toward where Catherine was, it was the feeling of home to a men who had been away from his homeland. It was peace, warm, and absence of danger, like a harbor in the inclement weather and colossal waves. He said he felt peace and not alone when he was with Catherine, not like with any other girls he had met,and this is the difference, in my opinion, between hotel and home.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:11 pm
1. It was because they felt disappointed about the result of the war. They could defeat the enemy as they expect, but unfortunately, they felt that they were defeated. The war ruined not only themselves but also their will, their home. They were tired of the war and the disillusionment came up.
2. Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police means that he stayed away from the terrible, forever-lasting war. It was the end of his experience of war and he would have a better future. Although it was unbeknown but it would definitely better than joining in the horrible war.
3. It means he used to be a member of soldier in the endless war but now he chose to be a way from it because of disillusionment and tiredness. He used to assume it was meaningful to involved in the war but with the feeling of defeated, he thought it better to quit the war and started a new life.
4. Yes, of course. The war made Frederic feel upset and dangerous. All he need is a safe land and a shelter. Staying with Catherine was a way to cure Frederic heart. He felt safe and joyful, just like he was at 'home'.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:22 pm
1. There were absolutely sundry reasons for the soldiers being disillusioned with the damn war. Disillusioned is such a sad word that described the gap between the soldiers' expectations and the reality. Though they had never loved the war which was all about killing, death and the stupid honor of the higher class as meationed in the former chapters, to some extent they still cared about the countries' glory or some other kind of stuffs. However, as the time went by, after witnessing some many bloody scenes, hopeless laments and useless prayings, the soldiers confidence would decline a lot. Also, when years passed by and there were still no sign for the peace to come, the passion and pursuit for nationalism and other things would cool down by the ice-cold killings and chaos. For example, Henery's journey to Udine shows the brutal side of the war which was even crueler than the battle itself. Everyone just cares about their own benefits and their own living. They may fled to survive. Italians killing each other just to make sure their own safety in the chaotic withdraw and nobody was responsible for Aymo's death.
Carabinieres and their officials killed the innocent without thinking about the difficulties of withdraw. If everone gets two sides, the war totally destroy the good side and release the evil from our heart, causing everbody to behave selfishly and arrogantly. This added desparation to soldiers and caused their feelings of disillusioning with the war, especially when many of them believe that the war would last forever.
2. Henery's leap into the river clearly divided the book into 2 parts. It used to be all about the war, now it talks about the fleeing. His leap into the river is his real action to show his resistant and odium towards the endless war and the incapable Italian government. Also, after he jumped into the river and fled to Switzerland he regained the feeling of peace. This is a contrast between his earlier journey of the dangerous and bloody war. His leap also symbolized his effort for the pursuit of peaceful life.
3. I think this statement means that Henery no longer cared about the war any more. Though he was persecuted by the army, now he chose to forgive. I thought it was also a kind of despair. He wanted to leave the terrible war and went back to a peaceful life. This statement is a goodbye to all of his years in the war, a denial and an escape for this bloody time. He threw away the honor,the memory and even the anger towards war and tried to get rid of this war totally by stopping learning anything about this war and seeking Catherine as his home and hope.
4. Yes, she does. Catherine, as the lover of Henery and the most important female character in this book, she was strongly contrary to the chaos, dangers, despair and blood which Henery usually saw on the battle field. In this book, Catherine was created to have the personality of obedience. So she was like the port which gave Henry warmth in the cold era. Their relatioship was not only about sex and fun at last. It was their love to each other that truly sewed the wound on each other's heart. For Henery, Catherine symbolized hope. She carried his best memory in the war time and that made her more important for Henery. When he was on the train, he thought of Catherine and that missing drove him crazy. She was the purest and most peaceful personin the horrible chaos. From the examination of this love, I believe that Catherine was the rufuge, peace and home for Henery.


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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:39 pm
1.
The disillusionment of the Italian soldiers was a disappointment that drove them into reality. At first, the Italian soldiers dreamed of winning the war and defeating the Austrians in a short time. However, when they finally saw the truth that they were defeated and the Germans were attacking them, they stopped dreaming and had to face the reality. There was no hope of gaining the victory and fortune in this war. On the other hand, when they saw countless people were injured, dead or became homeless, they lost themselves in this war and so the disillusionment came.

2.
The leap of Frederic’s into the river to escape the battle police is a symbol of a jump to his new life. He jumped into the river and flowed away from the war, which seems to be something he had to do to avoid the death of being accused as a spy, but it was also his determination of escaping away from the war and pursuing his life, the life that he wanted rather than he accepted. He might live in a small village with Catherine happily and peacefully without the worry of the war. So, this jump is a demarcation for the war and a new life for Frederic.

3.
Frederic mean that he didn’t need to live in the war ever and he was out of this endless and hopeless field. He was tired of war and of his life in the war. He wanted to pursue his real life, the life could be decided by himself. He was also looking forward to living with Catherine and the happy life with her. By the way, the “show” mentioned in his statement reveals his attitude towards the war: he didn’t believe it was his real life. He thought he didn’t belong to the war and he was not a real solider. At this time, he thought he was irrelevant with the war. It also reveals his positive attitude towards his future since “the show ended and the new life would begin”.

4.
Yes, I think so. When they were separated, they always thought of each other and both were looking forward to a reunion. Especially for Henry, he always recalled the sweet memories with Catherine. During the summer in Milan, Henry was filled with pure happiness when Catherine was with him. He didn’t need to worry about the war and the future, he only needed to enjoy the pure pleasant with Catherine. He was in a peace mood at the time. On the other hand, Henry and Catherine had a baby that lightened their life and brought warmth to both of them. Even though they were not married, they lived as a couple. When Henry was informed that he someone would catch him, he and Catherine left together without a hesitation. They formed a very close relationship in the end as they din’t think of themselves as a part from each other.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:48 pm
1 Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
After the long time fighting, the Italian soldiers must felt exhausted from both physical and mental. Also, the other main reason was that they used to think that they could have the ability to defeat their enemy in a few months even in several weeks, however, they realized that this would not happen anyway and the truth was that they would be defeated. The desperation and extreme depression in this time extended to a great extent. Meanwhile, the invasion of Germany started as well so that the psychological conditions of Italian soldiers broke down totally. They had no power or hope to fight against their enemies anymore. Faced with this situation, the disillusion at that time was inevitable since all of them were real human beings.

2 How is Frederic’s leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Henry Frederic at this time jumped into the river to search for the enormous release from the endless, bloody, miserable war. He was too tired to live in such horrible place and all he wanted at present was to start a new life without the burden of his identity being a soldier who had to fight for his country, miss security in the army. It was a kind of liberation from the past Henry and the meeting to a new Henry embracing new life with the woman he loved deeply in a peaceful, warm and gentle environment.

3 What extended meaning do we find in his statement, “it was not my show anymore…” (p206)
After realizing the cruelty and getting the desperation of the bloody war, Henry was totally tired about all those things he used to face. He didn’t want to remain the loyalty to his country or attend to the way any longer. Since all he got was death and the only one he cared and loved was Catherine, he would quit the war and stayed away from it. About the interesting word “show”, I can’t agree with Jack anymore, Henry realized his was manipulated by the war and acting like the player in a show without any of his own thought.

4 Does Catherine represent for Frederic’s refuge, peace, and “home” in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, she does. For refuge and peace, after all the damages Henry obtained from the war, in both physical and mental parts, Catherine was the only one who was alive and could give him comfort and cure since the love between them had the ability to heal the hurt and help him forget about the pain. Also, living with Catherine was always Henry’s dream both during the war time and the time quit the war, it was the most helpful way staying far from the miserable war and finding out peace. Containing the function to give the one warmth, care, cure, love, the place could be called as a home, and luckily, Catherine meant all those things to Henry, meanwhile, she was his wife and they had an unborn baby, which was exactly a home. So it satisfied the meanings of home both on the surface and in the deep and true part.
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Re: disillusion

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:50 pm
At first, Italian soldiers might be enthusiastic about the war. They might join the army for patriarch emotions or awarded honor. Some of them might think that if they join the army and bravely fight against the enemy, they would be awarded and be granted badges to become a colonel. At first, some of them firmly believed that the Italian army must win the war, so their participation would only be an honor, a proof that they are true men that love their countries and families profoundly. However, after attending the war, they finally realized that war was not a game, that it was not as easy as they used to consider and was far more cruel than their imagination. They had been naive but then they were exhausted. Now they saw the truth of the war was not a happy ending story as they thought before. So the Italian soldiers were disillusioned. So was Henry. That’s why Henry escape the war. His leap into the river symbols the demarcation in the novel. Before the demarcation, there were actual battle scenes in the story. After the demarcation, the war was ended. No battle scenes were seen now. Henry was floated on a piece of wood, when he looks back, it was the past, and forward was his new future. However, the war was far more influential, it still hit Henry’s life in every way. Henry said that ‘it was not my show anymore’ demonstrated that he use to be one of those illusional Italian soldiers - both thinking of saving their country and the world ; but now he knew the truth that war is endless. Men can win a battle but never a war as long as the ‘conspirator’ - the generals, the monarchs, maybe the god of death, still desire a war, the war continued. Those soldiers, including Henry, were just puppets on the stage but those who were not on the stage were the true hands that manipulated all. Henry came to know that and gave up acting as a clown that controlled by other. He quoted:’it was not my show anymore’ and quit the grand ridiculous show. Catherine do represent for Henry refuge, and ‘home’. Every time Catherine was present, the weather was just fine and the narration is mellifluence and graceful. Few bad things happened. Also notable to mention, Catherine was a perfect female according to Hemingway himself.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:00 pm
Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
In their imagination, they thought it would be a quick and easy war, however, as they have witnessed their friends, families, allies even themselves suffering from this war, as a result, they were not sure what to do. Their morale has been severely beat.
How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Escaping from this war is the turning point in the novel, since it is the first time, someone actually did something following their own will. From the very beginning, people were showing hatred to this war, however, nobody dared to escape from the reality. This leap means Henry was following his heart, heading towards Catherine and the life he wanted.
What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)?
I think he must stated with relief and endless hope for tomorrow. As he finally farewelled to this ominous game, it is a welcome to his new life and bright future. The point is why did he use the word “show”. One answer may be for he and the priest and all the outsiders inside this war, they are the actors on the stage but watching this war, watching everything happened, but have no place in this show. They can do nothing to change the plot of this show. Another explanation is that the word show hinted that Frederic felt manipulated by the war. He felt that he was a character in a show, controlled by the storyline, like a puppet on a string.
Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, after all the disastrous scenes Henry has witnessed on the battlefield, Cathrine’s hug is the only place called home. Also, thinking of the happy summertime they have shared in Milan, memories with her is forever sweet and warm, colorful and delighted. Of course for Henry, this is the safest place for him.

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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:31 pm
1. They were never into the war. I mean, despite of nationalism and heroism, and the sense of duty at the beginning of this war, after all the unnecessary deaths and the extreme and malicious efforts the governments put out just to keep the soldiers on the field, they were all in despair. But now, things have become worse than it has ever become. The Germans took the win and the Italians were forced to retreat. All of that last share of brightness and hope were gone, nothing but despair was what's left in their hearts.

2. Seemingly, he jumped only to avoid the police who was after him and was desperate to put a bullet to his head, but as we take a step back and look at the whole picture, we can see that the leap was more than a physical escape from what was coming after him, the police, but rather it was a refutation to all the hell he had been through, the bloody war, the deaths and the despair. It only took one leap to move on from all of this mess, and to move on to the next chapter of his life, away from all the death and hatred. It only took one leap, so he leaped.

3. It relates with the question previous to this one. By taking that leap, he has already determined to leave all those behind, and onto the next chapter of his life, which revolves around his reunion with Catherine. By using the word 'show', he was sarcastically implicating that in the game of war, they were all pawns and sacrifices of stupid bureaucracy.

4. Yes. It was evident that their next reunion was even more magnificent than any reunion prior to this. Their relationship even improved, they were more comfortable and honest with each other, and they were brought closer because of the gap that separated them, and the feelings of love which deposited from their separation. After all the hell he's lived through, Catherine is the next and ultimate chapter of his life, his home, and hopefully his broken soul can take refuge in the name of love.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:34 pm
1. Why are the Italians soldiers disillusioned with the war?
the word “disillusioned” means disappointed. Thus, Italians soldiers were quite disappointed about the final result of the war, for they have seen so many dead bodies and mass killings. At first, they kind of believed that they might defeat Austria-Hungarian’s army if the war was declared. However, nobody would think that way by now because they saw the victories of Austrian in battles and German’s declaration on war.
What’s more, they were also disappointed by the current situation they were in and the outcomes that the war had brought them with physical injuries to different extent or the disability to reunion with their family members.

2. How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
In this way, he was trying to find a dangerous but significant escape from the endless and rotten war that had brought him so much pain. This also indicated his exit to the war to start a new life with Catherine. He was accused as a spy of the German army, which made him inevitable to die whereas his jump into the river symbolized a reborn after experiencing all those sick things in the world and trying to get rid of them.

3. What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(chapter 32)?
This sentence showed his detachment from the war, starting a new life with Catherine. However, the author used the phrase “my show”, showing that he was kind of depressed about quitting the war. As a person who hated the war so much, he should be happy about finally not attending and suffering from the war. Thus, it indicated that he was just an actor in the show and the people directed the show was the governor. He was compulsory to attend the war and every action made in the war was controlled by the director tied with a string on it.

4. Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes. They both had an unforgettable memory when they were in Milan. Although they both doubted whether the love between them were true or not, they are still quite close to each other. When Catherine was feared by the rain outside, Henry would comfort him. Also, Henry would also wish to see Catherine sometimes to feel her warmth and embracement.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:35 pm
1.Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
They had experienced a prolonged period of cruelty and bloody battles and warfare, the longer the warfare lasted, the dimmer the glaze of victory they could view. The initial inspiration of beating the German armies also became vague, plus by such plenty of mercilessness and pain of their families which were far from what they envisioned as how they should guard their homeland and even conquer the opponent. They felt extremely disappointed and exhausted, form a extreme contrast to the will of the officers and vacancy of life's meaning. It was the contrast and shift over the fear and exhaustion that collapse the soldiers into desperation.


2. How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Water is often deemed as a pristine material that can purify one's guilty and spirit. Though under such a "stranded" situation that either being executed or leaping into water, the latter one had a little advantage and possibility over being killed to survive, it was more like a disentanglement and liberation of the bloody hurly-burly. Just as Stephen Crane wrote in his novel <The Open Boat>, when one gets properly wearied, drowning must really be a comfortable arrangement, a cessation of hostilities accompanied by a large degree of relief. Probably Frederic was joyful to feel ‘wash out’ his disappointment and pain, maybe there is a more profound meaning that he(or the author) also wanted to wash out the chaos and degeneration of that period.


3.What extended meaning do we find in his statement, “it was not my show anymore…” (p206)
The end of one thing often symbolize a beginning of another period in life. Frederic deeply found that his life should not be awash with warfare. He strongly desired to make a boundary of the past darkness and to pursue his envisionary peaceful and romantic life. Love was a luxury to those people, it was also a contrast to the cruel world of reality, so was Catherine. But it was kind of a dream of every one who involved in pain, includes Frederic. He wished to make a cut of the previous fighting life thus chase the sharing of life with Catherine.

4.Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, exactly. A man under that position could not distinguish love and peace, I guess. Catherine and “home” together represent the stable and quiet life which was far from the hurly frontier that Frederic was in pursuit for. Thought of Catherine could make him feel a bit relief and comfort, thus refuge from the war.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:36 am
Why are the Italians soldiers disillusioned with the war?
After all those years and all those battles, everyone will get tired. The life in the troop was just like aiming at someone, shooting at someone, watching someone being shoot at , burying someone, until one day a bullet hit you and you die either with pain or not. The one talking to you just now could be blown into pieces instantly. Everyone was living in a tremendous, terrible and terrifying warfare. Imaging living there for years. You nerves and mind cannot endure that any more. No one can get what they want. That's basicly why the Italians soldiers disillusioned with the war.

How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
In the first part of the novel Henry was always playing a character as the soldier or at least someone participant in the war. The time when he leap into the river he was just down with that. He was no more a soldier. That is the difference He became a normal man, a husband in the real world. There seemed to be no more happy life like gambling, joking, drinking with others , but a tough exodus life. That's why Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel in my own perspective.

What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(chapter 32)?
This question kinds of link back to the second one. When he took the leap, he was no more a officer, a soldier. He was a wanted escaping prison. To him the war now is not his matter. He did not need to care about the war.

Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes. When he was escaping, he never stop thinking about Catherine. Catherine seemed to become his destination, and his only purpose. Also Catherine seemed to have the power to take him out of the war and just stay in their own world. That's how Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home".
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Re: Disillusionment

on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:41 am
1.Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
From my perspective, there are mainly two reasons why Italian soldiers are disillusioned with the war. On one hand, for the Italian soldiers, they used to think that they could easily win the war. They even thought that they could finish this war in several months or even in several weeks. However, the reality showed that their illusion was completely broken. Instead of ending the war very quickly, they were actually defeated. The Germans had started to fight back and they had no choice but to retreat. Their hope was gone. On the other hand, after experiencing the war, they might realize the cruelty of the war. After seeing countless corpses and numerous separations between relatives, friends, they had really suffered too much, both mentally and physically. They had already been on the brink of debacle. Both of these two reasons above made the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war.

2.How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
By this moment, the main character of the book had already been completely tired with the war. The countless deaths of the soldiers and the pains brought by the injuries have already driven him on the brink of desperation. He no longer wanted to join the war. What he only wished to do was to escape from the war and lived a happy life with Catherine. By his leap into the river to escape the battle, it means that his desperation of the war reached to the climax and broke out. After this moment, his life would then enter a brand-new stage. He might cut all his connection with the war.

3.What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(chapter 32)?
It means that Frederic decided to quit the war completely. The only desire existed in his mind at that time was to escape from the war and started a brand-new life with his wife. The use of the word “show” is a little tricky here. It implies that Frederic considered himself a character in this war, controlled by the superior officers. He was just like a puppet, doing what others told him to do. However, after saying this sentence, he would never be controlled by others anymore. It was not his show any more. He had no connection with this war any longer.

4.Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Of course, she does, especially after the reunion. For Frederic, Catherine means everything. When they are separate, Catherine always has a place in Frederic’s heart. Frederic will always miss her and hopes that he can return as soon as possible. Also for Catherine, when Frederic is not with her, she will miss him at every moment and wishes that he can return as soon as possible. Besides, after Frederic return home and be together with Catherine, we can clearly feel that Frederic becomes much more peaceful. All in all, Frederic and Catherine, instead of two separate individuals, are more likely a whole. If they are separate, they might be nothing, but together they form a home.
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on Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:43 am
1.Why are the Italians soldiers disillusioned with the war?
Everyone gets tired after doing something repeatedly for a lot of times and realizing that there’s no hope. At first, the Italian soldiers thought that thy could win after several days or weeks’ fighting. But after a long time in the warm they realized that they are never going to defeated and they got tired of being a killing machine, always taking others’ lives away cold-bloody.

2.How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
He tried to escape. Not only from the war, but also from the honor and blood on his hand that the war brought to him. He wanted to start a new life, to live with his lover in somewhere without killing and he knew that jumping into the river is the only way of getting out of control.

3.What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(chapter 32)?
He wanted to get away. Physically and mentally. He don’t want to be part of this cruel war anymore and he is willing to sacrifice all his previous honor in change of freedom and new life.

4.Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes, she does. Even in the darkest time, they thought of others. And they became even more harmonious after the reunion.
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Re: Disillusionment

on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:12 am
Why are the Italian soldiers disillusioned with the war?
Because they were too afraid of the enemy to maintain calm. Plus the car was stuck so they became even more nervous. Suddenly they got tired of killing people everyday. They hated to stay in the situation that they may be shot and die forever at any moment. The torment of war had changed them into killing machines but actually they hope the war to end and desire peace. So they got disillusioned with the war.

How is Frederic's leap into the river to escape the battle police a symbolic demarcation in the novel?
Henry not only escaped from the the bullet of the battle police, but also more importantly, he escaped from the war. He left all the bloodiness and anger behind him. The water of the river washed away all his physical dirtiness and mental injuries that he got from the battlefield and provided him with a kind human nature and a bright future of his life. He would start a new life with Catherine, far away from the war.

What extended meaning do we find in his statement, "It was not my show any more..."(p. 206)?
Henry would leave the frontline forever and would never get into war again. He wanted to start a new life with Catherine. It seemed like Henry extremely hated the war. But the word “show” shows that he kind of enjoy when he was in the battlefield. He considered himself as the protagonist on the stage. That embodies that the war could totally change a person. Even Henry escaped from the war, the destruction in mental health and human nature would never disappear.

Does Catherine represent for Frederic refuge, peace, and "home" in its fullest sense? How?
Yes. Compared to the war and the battlefield, Catherine, a nurse in the hospital, means safety, peace and comfortableness. When his body got damaged by the mortar, he could stay on the bed for months without thinking about the war and death because of Catherine’s care. Though they sometimes doubt each other’s love, which always happen between lovers, they are actually connected tightly.
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Re: Disillusionment

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